A few issues I have with the McMMO skills.  (Read 1794 times)

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goingtodieur

A few issues I have with the McMMO skills.
« on: 11 Jun 2013, 08:00:19 »
While I have been greatly enjoying this server and a few of its unique characteristics, it seems that every milestone I reach in my goals, I encounter a saddening problem that this server has specifically created in that skill. While most of them are fair enough, it's doubly aggravating since I worked hard to get to this point and was not warned ahead of time that this point had been nerfed or removed altogether. Here are some examples:

Mining: I leveled my mining up to about 125 before quickly noticing two problems.
-Double Drop % Chance Nerf: In this server, the chance for a double drop from ores has been nerfed by approximately two thirds. This seems pointless to me. The explanation given to me by the mods is that 'there are people with 2400 mining,' which seems like a silly excuse to me. Traditionally, by 1000 mining, your chance is 100%. Ignoring the fact that 1000 mining in a skill is a lot of work and frankly, deserves to be rewarded with double drops, something that hardly affects the economy of a server anyway, this does more to limit the growth of new players than to penalize those of high level. Perhaps a fair middleground would be to cap the percentage at 50 or even 25, rather than just force a 33% growth rate.
-No TNT/Blast Mining Whatsoever. This was aggravating to learn, especially after purchasing the sand to make TNT with. I was told the reason for this was that it was glitched due to TNT not breaking blocks, griefing, etc etc. Let me ask you this: What do you think I'm going to grief in the mining world? Turning TNT damage off in the main world makes sense to me, but why the mining world? I suggest that TNT be allowed in the mining world, where it would be used to mine, as the skill is intended. By taking it out (and again, I add, not doing anything to warn players it has been removed,) on top of nerfing the double drop chance, you effectively destroy the mining skill in McMMO. Its passive is far less useful and it's only other benefit has been removed entirely, effectively making it the least productive skill in the server. Another option, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement, is to have TNT only destroy blocks not placed by players, making griefing much less doable. Regardless, you have plenty of moderators; they can ban griefers and rollback griefed areas. It seems lazy, for lack of a better term, to completely nullify a popular, useful skill, because a few people will break the rules and abuse it - keep in mind these people will likely break different rules in the future and be banned anyway.

Unarmed: This is barely noticable, but unarmed being my favorite skill, it's something I picked up on quickly: It takes twice the level as normal to raise your unarmed damage bonus. This seems extremely silly to me, being a NON-PVP SERVER. What's the point of nerfing an underused combat skill in one of the few servers where it gives you no edge over other players? Despite being a valuable skill at high levels, nerfing it's growth also HIGHLY nerfs its rate of growth, as the bonuses are what helps you continue to level this skill, effectively making it one of the slowest skills in this server: If you look at the top 15, the lowest ones are only in the 200s, and the highest in the entire server is only 668 at time of posting. I believe this nerf cripples the growth of this skill.

Excavation: Excavation has often been a fast skill to level and this isn't so much a nerf as it is an issue. Despite being a quick skill, it is almost entirely useless in this server. The only 'treasure' of any real value in this server is the diamonds themselves. Everything else is worthless or nearly worthless; discs have no value, glowstone dust has flooded the economy, gunpowder has no use what with the TNT being turned off (could be fixed by fixing the mining skill,) none of the items that can be sold to the admin shop in most servers can be sold (understandable,) and cake is given away commonly in the Mob Arena, which also gives away enough iron and gold to make the buckets and clocks completely pointless.

Prof_Templeton

Re: A few issues I have with the McMMO skills.
« Reply #1 on: 11 Jun 2013, 13:24:50 »
What is needed is a McMMO breakdown or explanation post on this forum and there isn't one. Since McMMO is a configurable plug-in it is understandable that it would be tailored to the server, but those customizations should be laid out. Otherwise, it is too easy to have expectations that match the McMMO wiki when that should not be the case.

This is my first experience with McMMO and the rate of double drops while Mining seems natural to me. Perhaps if I had been used to a higher rate my perceptions would be different. I was hopeful that the blast mining would work, but was fully expecting it not to, given what I know of this server. I wasn't at all shocked when I couldn't place the TNT block. I had only brought one with me.

Because this isn't primarily a PVP server, my initial reaction would be to agree with the previous posts' questioning of the reduction to the Unarmed leveling rate. It's not a main concern of mine so there may be some reasoning I am not considering. If another player is like me and they are mainly mining, building, killing mobs, and occasionally taking part in events, then any of the combat skills are going to take a proportionately long time to level. I have been cleaving every mob I come across with an ax and my level is still only around 50 or 60.

I do have an issue with the Fishing skill. I had begun leveling it to unlock the Shake ability at level 150. That was the level stated on the Wiki and the level that I had, incorrectly, assumed would be needed on the server. I have since learned that additional info regarding the skills can be found by entering the respective names into the chat, but I didn't know that at the time. Regardless, when I finally did reach the required level 500 to unlock Shake it didn't work. I informed one of the mods who said they would inform an admin, but I don't think it has been fixed yet.

TL,DR;

A forum entry explaining the basics of McMMO (not a leveling guide) is needed.
Mining drops seem natural to this player, although I would like to blow stuff up. Who doesn't?
Combat skills = Meh, don't care, but the ax explosion sounds great on my sub-woofer.
Fix the "Shake" ability so I can rip the hides off cows.

PT

Edit: You should always kill "Mobs" and never "Mods" ;-P
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2013, 16:20:01 by Prof_Templeton »

Duelcon

Re: A few issues I have with the McMMO skills.
« Reply #2 on: 13 Jun 2013, 04:17:07 »
Hi there guys, let me see if I can explain some of these to you in greater detail.

An mcmmo breakdown can be found on the wikia of the plugin.  If you want to learn about a skill, what it does, or how to use it, that is the place to go and check on it. 

Mining:  Double drops are meant to increase with your level of mining.  In fact, the rate at which you gain mining experience was accelerated at the early levels and progressively gets harder as you gain more skill.  I'm sorry you have an issue with the drop rates, but that's how it's been decided to be.  There's no reason or explanation I can give to you that you don't already know.  This will not be changed or modified.  Sorry.

TNT mining:  The reason for this is obvious.  TnT causes more than just griefing issues.   It can be used to potentially crash a server, destroy MASSIVE amounts of land in the mining world very quickly.  We don't want this.  It won't happen.

Unarmed, Axes, and Swords.  These three skills have always been difficult to level in noobstown.  It was intended to take a long time for these skills to grow and become more effective.  In v6, there may be modifications to the gain rates but as for now, there's no point in increasing, decreasing, or modifying them for general use against mobs.   The gain rate of the skill is the same for everyone, and in the same token, it's a non pvp server.  I'm sorry you feel this is silly, but for us, it's valid. 

Excavation:  Often times I have found players buying full double chests of dirt and gunpowder for building fireworks displays.  Glowstone is still a widely used source of lighting.  Again, the skill is not something that is designed to please an individual player.  It's meant to be something that enhances the gameplay of everyone.    Having an issue with the skill because you think it's useless or silly is not a valid reason for us to modify it in anyway. 

Fishing:  The shake ability is disabled and we're not sure why.  The only one that can fix that would be Fatnoob and he is aware that the skill is off. 


These skills are put in place to enhance the server and compliment the gameplay to make it fun and enjoyable.  They are not meant to be easy to level, overpowered, and give you a massive advantage in a short amount of time.  The changes were made with the entire community in mind and for the betterment of the server.  We will take your opinions and suggestions into consideration, but please be patient and try to understand that the skills are not 'nerfed' or purposefully made 'silly' to upset anyone.  If you have issues with the base mechanics of the plugin, talk to the developer.  We cannot modify it.

EDIT: I should also mention that many of the skills will undergo changes for v6.
« Last Edit: 13 Jun 2013, 04:33:48 by Duelcon »

Prof_Templeton

Re: A few issues I have with the McMMO skills.
« Reply #3 on: 13 Jun 2013, 17:27:54 »
An mcmmo breakdown can be found on the wikia of the plugin.  If you want to learn about a skill, what it does, or how to use it, that is the place to go and check on it. 

What is needed is a McMMO breakdown or explanation post on this forum and there isn't one. Since McMMO is a configurable plug-in it is understandable that it would be tailored to the server, but those customizations should be laid out. Otherwise, it is too easy to have expectations that match the McMMO wiki when that should not be the case.

When I said a breakdown I meant as it relates to this server. At what level the abilities activate, dropped items and rates, etc. What those values are for this server and not the default values show on the wiki. I could write it up if needed.

For the shake ability, I believe the treasures.yml file needs to be repopulated or amended.

Of course, I probably wouldn't bother with any of this until V6.

After doing a bit more research, I also realized that the unarmed skill does affect the economy because you can make cracked stone blocks with it. I don't know how viable that would be.

Just two cents more.

PT

goingtodieur

Re: A few issues I have with the McMMO skills.
« Reply #4 on: 13 Jun 2013, 23:44:57 »
Hi there guys, let me see if I can explain some of these to you in greater detail.

An mcmmo breakdown can be found on the wikia of the plugin.  If you want to learn about a skill, what it does, or how to use it, that is the place to go and check on it. 

Mining:  Double drops are meant to increase with your level of mining.  In fact, the rate at which you gain mining experience was accelerated at the early levels and progressively gets harder as you gain more skill.  I'm sorry you have an issue with the drop rates, but that's how it's been decided to be.  There's no reason or explanation I can give to you that you don't already know.  This will not be changed or modified.  Sorry.

TNT mining:  The reason for this is obvious.  TnT causes more than just griefing issues.   It can be used to potentially crash a server, destroy MASSIVE amounts of land in the mining world very quickly.  We don't want this.  It won't happen.

Unarmed, Axes, and Swords.  These three skills have always been difficult to level in noobstown.  It was intended to take a long time for these skills to grow and become more effective.  In v6, there may be modifications to the gain rates but as for now, there's no point in increasing, decreasing, or modifying them for general use against mobs.   The gain rate of the skill is the same for everyone, and in the same token, it's a non pvp server.  I'm sorry you feel this is silly, but for us, it's valid. 

Excavation:  Often times I have found players buying full double chests of dirt and gunpowder for building fireworks displays.  Glowstone is still a widely used source of lighting.  Again, the skill is not something that is designed to please an individual player.  It's meant to be something that enhances the gameplay of everyone.    Having an issue with the skill because you think it's useless or silly is not a valid reason for us to modify it in anyway. 

Fishing:  The shake ability is disabled and we're not sure why.  The only one that can fix that would be Fatnoob and he is aware that the skill is off. 


These skills are put in place to enhance the server and compliment the gameplay to make it fun and enjoyable.  They are not meant to be easy to level, overpowered, and give you a massive advantage in a short amount of time.  The changes were made with the entire community in mind and for the betterment of the server.  We will take your opinions and suggestions into consideration, but please be patient and try to understand that the skills are not 'nerfed' or purposefully made 'silly' to upset anyone.  If you have issues with the base mechanics of the plugin, talk to the developer.  We cannot modify it.

EDIT: I should also mention that many of the skills will undergo changes for v6.

So basically you just restated everything I said and gave the excuse of "we know what we're doing."