Lowering wilderness plot prices.  (Read 1814 times)

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Citebafla

Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« on: 10 Feb 2014, 18:00:50 »
First of all, let me say that I love the whole idea of chunky, and you guys have done a great job at it.

However, I think the prices of wilderness plots get exorbitantly high within a fairly short amount of time.
I had a chat with Duelcon about the prices, and he explained to me the motivation of the admins behind it. I do understand that there has to be some sort of mechanism to keep large growth of people's plot sizes in check, and to prevent a large number of inactive wilderness buildings to ensure this world will be a very long-lasting one.

But, I did do a few calculations, based on the number of plots I've bought so far. The plotprizes increase exponentially, although there is a slight decrease in the amount of exponential growth. To explain it to people:

You buy plot A for a certain price.
Plot B will cost the price of plot A, with a fixed price increase +20%
Plot C will cost the price of plot B,  with the price increase of the previous plots +19%

So basically, the price with every plot will increase, but the percentual increase will be gradually lower, so the price increase between plots will flatten eventually.
This is a nice system, and although I'm not exactly a mathematical genius (far from that) I do know enough to do some rough estimations.

Keeping into account the decreased percentual growth in plot price increasement, by the time you have bought 20 plots in a best-case scenario, each plot will be at least 80k per plot. Keeping into account that I am planning to buy 49 plots for my building, the equivalent of 112x112 blocks, that would mean that eventually I'm gonna need a multitude of millions to buy all plots needed.

If we then take this into comparison to the income I had in V5, it took me 6 months to get about 2 million noobz. I totally understand that you don't want the world to fill up quickly, and that you want people to actually work for getting a decent sized area. But taking over half a year just to get enough terrain to get a 100x100 building seems ridiculous to me. And that's only for getting the terrain. After that I'd have to start on the actual building itself.

So in the end, my suggestion/idea/request/question is, is there ANY chance at all that the prices of wilderness plots will be lowered? Cause I highly doubt any person would have the patience to spend half a year to get enough terrain for a decent sized project.

I'm a bit disappointed to be honest. In the builder's streams during the development of this version I specifically asked the admins if it would still be possible to go for big projects this version, and I even used my example of a 400x400 building, which would've been my original project for this version (So I already had to tone that down to a 100x100 building) and I was guaranteed that it was not your intention to discourage big projects and it would very well be possible, so it would be a very nice gesture to see you live up to this promise, which kept me waiting for V6 during it's many months of development.

Entangled

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #1 on: 11 Feb 2014, 05:57:07 »
I'll preface this by saying that I admired your V5 wilderness build such that I had mapped the coordinates, and when the topic of conversation would turn to cool wilderness builds, I would show it as an example.  I have complete confidence in your ability to build something befitting of a large chunk claim, and would be glad to have you as a wilderness neighbor.  However, considering the exponential rise in the wilderness chunk price scale compared to what I'd assume is a fixed price per plot claim for towns, I have to ask:  Would a large-scale build be more practical for the town world instead?  Would you hypothetically, as a mayor or TA, be able to do something like this as a town feature or an outpost?

Edit:  Or we just need some sponsors who become heavily involved in the town world, who can become wilderness friends to donate chunk claims adjacent to yours, on which to grant you builder permission.  Potential for failure in that plan, though.
« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2014, 06:02:02 by Entangled »

gamergirlxo

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #2 on: 11 Feb 2014, 06:43:38 »
I kind of agree with this. Citebafla, you gave a very good explanation. Your message, however, had too much math in me to keep up with. haha anyway, I guess it's my fault but I bought and sold so much (really couldn't make up my mind) that I'm to the point where I can't buy any other plots and if I want to buy something it will either cost 500K or 1M noobs.

So that's just my thoughts. As you said, I understand how it works and Duelcon is correct but it does seem a little steep.

Duelcon

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #3 on: 11 Feb 2014, 09:16:17 »
Hi there, Cite

I'm glad you took my suggestions and made a forum post about this.  I understand your misgivings about the large build cost of purchasing a 400 x 400 area.  To add a bit of calculations for you to consider:

1 hour - 50k nbz if farming with proper tools and equipment.

4 hours a day for a week = 28 hours = 1400k nbz

This is using only junk items that you would sell to the shop.  Now we want the server to last for a long time, and give players long-term goals that will keep them with us for months.  Building quickly and having something grand and marvelous is what we all dream about and hope to achieve.  I remain indifferent on the price, and I would ask that you give it a week or two before you finalize your judgement on the plot costs.  Once the economy levels out and items begin to take on their 'true' worth, we will make adjustments as necessary.  Please keep up with the feedback and let us know what YOU think!  The community makes the server and our goal is to serve it in the best way possible.

ItsLawrence

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #4 on: 11 Feb 2014, 15:20:59 »
What Duelcon explained is part of the reasoning behind the pricing being as it is. We want growing your land to be really something you need to work towards. In V5 we experienced a point at which people had more money than they knew what to do with, this way you have to choose wisely how to spend your money, to either buy items, perks, land, towns, etc. It will eventually get to a point for many players where money isn't an issue though; which is why the pricing increases as it does, as you have money making more money becomes easier; hence the exponential factor in the pricing.

If you are wanting to build a massive project we suggest you start off small or do small sections of it until you can afford to expand it further.

All players need to be aware that our current V6 economy is just starting and therefore the selling prices of items may not be at what they will level out to be at. For example we are trying to make the economy 10 times larger than it was originally planned to be; with everything else being 10 times larger relatively (so you won't notice the change) land pricing also reflects this thought on everything else being worth more. You can make tens of thousands simply from mining out a small area with cobble and dirt.

I will still however talk with Fatnoob about this and review our pricing plans.

gamergirlxo

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #5 on: 12 Feb 2014, 01:26:02 »
good points made lawrence. Thanks!

zeel01

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #6 on: 22 Feb 2014, 03:18:45 »
I am planning a rather ambitious project involving a cluster of mountains. This cluster is 38 chunks wide. Now if I were building this in a vanilla world my friend and I could grind the materials out in a week or two. The build will take some time without creative, but I am fully confident in our ability to pull it off.

But 38x38 chunks? That's 1444 chunks, and at the 80k avg price Cite puts forth that is upwards of 116 million nbz to build on the land. At Duelcons estimate of 1400 nbz a week that would be 83 thousand weeks. This is an obviously absurd number.

Now the over all plan doesn't require owning the entire area, clusters and connecting rows would do - but it's a creative project, I won't know exactly what I need until I need it, and running into chunks I do not own constantly (and falling to my death) makes it very hard to build. I'm sure the end result will come in well under 1444 chunks, but it will still be far more than I can reasonably buy with the current system.

I am confident in our ability to complete construction on this, but the area needed to house it is so large I spend most of my time online mining and farming just so I can afford my next chunk. I have more than enough resources to live on, but getting nbz is hard and it's getting tedious as the prices rise. I can build this, but I don't know if I can buy the land on which to do it.


So I put forth the following solutions:
  • Price cap - Price cap that is much lower than it is now
  • Price mound rather than curve - Prices peek at 100K, but then drop to allow for large areas. Forces cost of entry for massive builds to be high, players can't just buy up all the land and make a mess, but a dedicated player can work their way over the hill and achieve greatness. 
  • Paid public building - You can build in chunks you do not own, this would be a restricted features either to VIP or some other donation requirement. Basically by paying real money you prove your dedication and can now build in public chunks. This would allow for a player to go and buy the chunks after they have their building, so they only need to purchase the ones that are actually occupied by their structure. (alternatively a lower nbz price to just gain build privilege without owning the chunk)
  • Approved builds - The ability to petition the moderators to gift you with chunks based on a proposal for a build. This would require some kind of proof that you can pull it off, and would be designed to encourage large projects by skilled builders.
  • Subsidized building - Something of the inverse of the above, here you could petition the mods pay you for having constructed something awesome. Built a huge sphinx? Mods pay you for you contribution to the server, now you have cash to build your pyramids!
  • Adjacent chunk building - Something that would at least help is if we could place blocks in chunks adjacent to those we own. We don't control those chunks, but we wouldn't need to buy them just because the decorations on our wall are a block wider than the chunks we own.

ItsLawrence

Re: Lowering wilderness plot prices.
« Reply #7 on: 23 Feb 2014, 18:00:27 »
We have now adjusted the pricing of land in the wild. Refer to this topic: http://www.noobscraft.com/server-announcements/revised-wilderness-pricing/msg76325/#msg76325.