More sell options in the server shop.  (Read 3669 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Reigando

More sell options in the server shop.
« on: 12 Feb 2014, 00:57:14 »
I'm already having certain items pile up with no one in sight interested in buying them. I (and I'm sure others) would like to see an option to pawn off more stuff.

Examples:
Coal
Redstone
Sugarcane
Excavated discs
Cocoa beans
Logs
Flowers

These are just some examples of things that pile up that no one seems interested in buying because they're so easily obtained. (Also, anyone reading this thread who actually does want to buy them...message me to get them in bulk!)

A boost in reward money for kills would also be nice, for the time and danger of fighting you get less reward than digging dirt.
« Last Edit: 12 Feb 2014, 00:59:16 by Reigando »

gamergirlxo

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #1 on: 12 Feb 2014, 01:24:35 »
maybe post your idea here?

http://www.noobscraft.com/trade/shop/

Darkwings

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #2 on: 12 Feb 2014, 18:03:11 »
I've suggested something like this in the Kickstart the Economy thread.

Restone seems the best candidate from that list because it's "uncommon" and the value could be set low enough to avoid inflation.

Coal is really not a good idea imo. It's a good fuel and also a neat building block so it already have a good variety of uses.

Sugarcane will cause the problems of V5 with infinite farms etc...

The rest are niche items, better suited for decoration (like lily pads) and p2p trading than mass storage.

DrewG2001

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #3 on: 12 Feb 2014, 18:51:04 »
I think it would be nice to be able to buy torches from the /shop bar.

It was very helpfull with mining in V5

Darkwings

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #4 on: 12 Feb 2014, 19:18:37 »
I think it would be nice to be able to buy torches from the /shop bar.

It was very helpfull with mining in V5

That's another matter altogether. The thread is about getting rid of otherwise useless stacks and not about shortcuts.

Reigando

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #5 on: 21 Feb 2014, 06:28:04 »
Please let me sell logs...so....much...wood....

Silverwolf1985

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #6 on: 21 Feb 2014, 06:46:34 »
If there will be more with the /shop than the auction will be a waste. I say keep it as it is and let the econemy settle. Remember we just opend as a server and when the towns are made than the demand for items will rise.

Reigando

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #7 on: 21 Feb 2014, 07:51:59 »
Purchase of the listed items is extremely rare in auction or player to player trade. I know, I've been trying to sell it all.

Darkwings

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #8 on: 21 Feb 2014, 11:32:45 »
This is a list of items that have no purpose in the player-to-player economy or that are so cheap that it's simply a chore to get rid of the big surplus players can easily get:

-Saplings. You only ever need 1 and then you get an infinite supply.

-Seeds. Same as saplings.

-Wood (planks). Even if everyone needs wood, no one will need the immense amount you can get with the Treecutting skills. Even if you wanted to use it all as fuel, you won't be able to keep up with the harvests.
This also makes the Woodcutting skill way less important.

-Stone (smooth). Discussed already, there's no real reason to exclude this from /shop.

These items are not the byproduct of something more useful, they are all main drops and integral parts of some mcmmo skills and most likely you'll be throwing them away to avoid wasting space, even though they take time to gather and consume tools in the process.

Special temporary mention:
-Food. Especially meat. Since there's a /kit food command due to a bug related to hunger in this version of MC farming food has no meaning and since meat can't be used in any crafting recipe, it's really just useless.
Considering we can already sell rotten flesh, why not?

ItsLawrence

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #9 on: 21 Feb 2014, 17:41:04 »
The server shop is not there for everyone to offload everything they collect and make money from it, it's meant for money to be introduced into the economy from specific work. If you don't want to collect the specific blocks that can be sold then you'll have to find a different route to make money. All of the items you have mentioned can be stored away for future use, sold to other players, or even given away if you really don't need them.

I'll explain exactly why some of the mentioned items won't be in the shop any time soon:
  • Coal: This can be mined extremely easily and with a fortune pickaxe you can receive many from a single ore. It is also a vital item in the starting of a game as smelting normally begins by using this. You shouldn't ever need to sell it, put it into furnaces and use it up.
  • Redstone: This again is not a "junk" material, it's key for anything redstone related and fortune yields large amounts of it.
  • Sugarcane: This is extremely easy to automate and for that reason it won't ever be sellable to the server.
  • Records: At this current point in the server there are many people who won't have any or only very few of the records, sell them to players directly. I understand they can quickly collect up but again you can sell whatever you excavated as well so you are already making money from that work.
  • Cocoa beans: These again aren't a "junk" item, they are easily farmable too.
  • Logs: Wood is such a key item in the game it is required for such a number of crafting recipes that someone out there will be willing to buy or receive it. It is also extremely easy to farm.
  • Flowers: These are easily farmable and are extremely easy to collect. Again they can also be used for other useful tasks. You may consider them "junk" but many others won't.
  • Saplings: For the same reasons as wood, they are far too easy to farm.
  • Seeds: The same reason as saplings, and again they can be extremely useful for a select number of people.
  • Planks: Same reason as wood.
  • Smooth stone: See my reply to this topic: http://www.noobscraft.com/suggestions-ideas/shop-ability-to-sell-stone/msg75918/#msg75918
  • Food: There is currently a bug in Minecraft which means that people randomly lose hunger much much faster than they are meant to, this is why we introduced /kit food. We aren't going to take away a vital resource from the server at this time when many users are in need of these items.

The server shop is not meant to be everyone's primary source of income (it was introduced as a way to remove "junk" items from the game) if you want to make money from other things you can do so by selling them to other players, or simply hold on to them until a later date. We are currently at a point in the start of the server where all players are starting out with collecting a range of items, it won't always be like this though as people will begin to specialise in specific things and may eventually require mass amounts of one of the items you previously mentioned. If no one is willing to buy them right now, put them away in storage somewhere.

In V6 we are trying to make it a player ran economy where almost everything is traded between users; not one where everything can be done through the server shop.

My final suggestion would be if you aren't going to make money from doing something and you are just trying to make money, then don't do the activity which isn't going to yield money.

Reigando

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #10 on: 22 Feb 2014, 07:40:08 »
How about charcoal if not logs?

You have to go through effort to make logs into that, and it can't even be combined to make a building block like regular coal.

Darkwings

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #11 on: 22 Feb 2014, 15:21:59 »
Lawrence, I understand the whole "do what gives you money, avoid the rest" but the problem we have at the moment is that only mining introduce money into the economy.
Just mining, while Minecraft has a lot of other things and items in it other than that, even in vanilla.

What you're asking is to basically ignore 85% of the game mechanics because they don't give noobz, and everyone needs noobz to build stuff.

For example, why accepting a land clearing job for a few thousands noobz when you can just go out mining for 1 hour and get most probably 3x that amount even if the worst case scenario?

Why gathering non-mining drops for 30 minutes when no one will pay the 30-minutes-worth of equivalent mining-time or the equivalent durability worth of the items you need to get those resources anyway?

Just go mining for those 30 minutes/1 hour and get more money without even needing other people to sell stuff to.

This however isn't an answer to "give us more options please", it's the very reason why such a request was made.
« Last Edit: 22 Feb 2014, 15:23:48 by Darkwings »

Debo37

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #12 on: 22 Feb 2014, 17:16:14 »
I think the key reason the shop buys what it does is inflation - everything you can sell to /shop (save for Rotten Flesh) is a finite resource. Therefore, the total amount of noobz in the economy is directly related to the amount of man-hours that have gone into gathering it. Rotten Flesh doesn't cause an issue here because gathering it en masse isn't easily automated, and automating it only yields a trickle (trust me, we tried).

When you add infinite items like wood and farmables to the list of things you can sell, you create the ability to make money super quickly, and that's not the intent of /shop. The admins intend for players to be trading items among one another for money, they don't intend for everyone to harvest full inventories of wood or sugarcane and do /sellall like was the case in v5. Using /shop is supposed to be inferior to using the Auction by design.

Personally I wouldn't mind the selling prices of what exists in /shop going up a wee bit, from in the range of 100-200 to the range of 200-300, just because so much money has exited the economy by means of town creation, chunk claiming, and the like. But ultimately it's the admins' call, and they have a ton of back-end metrics that I'm sure they use to make sure things are in balance.

v6's economy is a different beast than v5's, so comparing the two isn't really fair. The server shop still has a crucial role but it's been intentionally marginalized. I can't wait for the game stats to come back though, I'm really looking forward to seeing just how much money is actually in the economy.

Darkwings

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #13 on: 23 Feb 2014, 00:55:52 »
Cobblestone is infinite and by far the easiest block to get (sand is faster to dig but can be harder to find). All the other blocks are infinite too since the resource world reset monthly...

Using saplings as an example:

Gathering large quantities of cobblestone/sand requires as little work as saplings and other stuff do.
You will actually get more cobble than saplings in the same amount of time, especially with enchanted picks, since you'll need a stable input of bones to keep the trees growing.

The number of saplings you can get per tree is limited and the more trees you stack together the less leaves (and thus saplings) you'll get.

You will still get stacks in a few minutes, but you can also get stacks of cobble in a few minutes and also coal and iron as an extra (I'm leaving out gold and diamonds on purpose).

FlammableCow800

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #14 on: 23 Feb 2014, 01:38:54 »
I think we really should get more items in the shop because from what i see, theres like 5 items that have been bid on in the front auction page so good luck to anybody who get get money from that. So what most people are stuck with is selling the items to the junk shop and mining cobble, sand, and dirt gets a kinda boring.

deebles17

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #15 on: 26 Feb 2014, 00:39:04 »
I like it reigando, SOOO MUCH **** IN NY CHESTS!

GrumpyV5

Re: More sell options in the server shop.
« Reply #16 on: 27 Feb 2014, 10:14:01 »
I'm with Lawrence on this one.
Kickstarting the economy by infusing more money via new selloptions might sound like a good idea at first, but it bears the great risk of infusing too much money and causing an unplanned inflation.
Example: Some here stated that they have too much wood in their chests, let's sell this wood and turn it into a huge boost in money. This additional money will now flow into a market where the amount of goods (let's take diamonds as example) is the same as before. This will mean that people who sold wood will be able to purchase a higher quantity of diamonds and be able to pay an higher price. Traders will pick up on this and the prices will go up. In the end the woodsellers might not profit if the price-inflation of goods goes up high enough the devalue thier additional profits. And the losers will be those who invest their time rather in activities like building instead of gathering (or don't have time to play as much in the first place), because they will suddenly face a market where their already gathered goods and noobs loose value (due to inflation) and where other players (those who have a lot of time or focus on gathering) suddenly have access to such a large amount of cash that they can dominate the market (undercut smaller traders and overbid auctioneers on goods).
Another aspect is the time-sink effect. In every big MMO you will face activities that cost you a lot of time (like farming ingredients for some legendary weapon or farming rare drops). The reason behind this is longterm motivation. If players get the things that they want fast and easy they will get bored at a certain point and every game tries to prevent that. So you force the player to go through more effort to get what he wants and in the end the player is happier because he has a goal and something to do. Here on noobstown one of those timesinks is the accumulation of noobs, if players can get them too easily and everything linked to it (like playing the economy, expansions and towns) will get boring after a very short time, i.e. why invest time in the economy to earn money if you already have everything you need. At the current rate the expansion of plots is good enough, the economy quite stable, build are progressing at a good rate and the growth of towns are only hindered by the (now apparently fixed and refunded) plot-bug. If we speed all that up by introducing more cashflow through more easy moneymaking options than what will there be left to do in 6-12 months? V7? Think about your own longterm motivations on the server, remember how boring it got sometimes in V5 when everythink could be simply bought by easily made money? In the end this is no creative server, therefore it is imperative in the long run that items (and funds) for buildingprojects and towns are not to easily (and too fast) aquired.

If you can't make money atm then you might indeed think about refocussing your activities or live with the fact that if you invest more time in building you won't get that much income (time is money after all). It's a matter of setting priorities according to what your goal is: more income, a big timeconsuming but beautifull build, more fun like the horseraces, the goldmembershipcard at the casino,  ... You can't have it all in the beginning so think about what it is you want to have.
And if you have too much wood, well build something, sell it to new players (or in the auctionhouse), give it away and most improtantly stop chopping trees ;)
Also: one reason you might not be making enough money might be because you neglect the auctionhouse. Those who invest lots of money often use it because it is easier too handle and safer than buying everything in chat. and because you can make large savings there sometimes. If you as a trader want to target those who know how to use the server (instead of those who don't yet know it and therefore often also only have "small wallets") then you might want to sell where they are buying. It will take a while before trade there really picks up, but ask yourself one question: When it does pickup the "average price per item" function might play a crucial role in setting the prices, do you want to be one of the profiteers who have set the average prices beforehand and already dominate parts of that market or do you want to be one of the followers that have to play by the average prices and rules others have already set.
Example: wool. The average price per block of wool has been dumped by a small group of woolfarmers by undercutting others by large  amounts. This has devalued the worth of woolblocks for some time now making it harder to gain a good income with wool. Now it will only be a time when more townbuild will emerge that need larger quantities of wool (enter the pixelart), if you wish to make money with wool in the long run, then now would be the time to raise the average price of wool for future income.
And before someone starts with mobfarms don't work. It's all in the balance of "mobamout per chunk + chunkborderalignment" and not going over the limit. A 9x9 sheepfarm can house 60-80 (90 is pushing the risk of despawning) sheep if they are correctly seperated (doublefences or a 1block wide wall help to prevent mobs to cross the chunkborder when standing directly at the fence).

And there is quite some money to be made from lootingsword+slimes/withers/blazes if you know whom to sell to or pick the right times to sell on the auctionhouse (and know in which form/product to sell them) - you might want to think about selling the slimeballs as stickypistons to increase their value, or just keep the "piston-set" ready for assembly to quickly get them done on an order but still keep the slimeballs available should someone only buy those).